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NYT: Sex Talk for Muslim Women; An Insider’s Assault on Islamic Values and It’s Shari’ah

NYT: "Sex Talk for Muslim Women" 
An Insider’s Assault on Islamic Values and It’s Shari’ah

Mona Eltahawy has contributed, as an op-ed writer an article “Sex Talk for Muslim Women” in the The Opinion Pages of New York Times on May 5, 2016 http://nyti.ms/23tgUoy. She is the author of “Headscarves and Hymens: Why the Middle East Needs a Sexual Revolution” and introduces herself in this essay as “I am not a cleric, and I am not here to argue over what religion says about sex. I am an Egyptian, Muslim woman who waited until she was 29 to have sex and has been making up for lost time. My upbringing and faith taught me that I should abstain until I married. I obeyed this until I could not find anyone I wanted to marry and grew impatient. I have come to regret that it took my younger self so long to rebel and experience something that gives me so much pleasure.

I think it is necessary that we analyse her arguments and prepare ourselves for the correct response.

Let me make it clear, to start with. She has a right to “have” her views and keep it to herself. But she wants to propagate them; moreover these views relate to my/our religion and therefore we have a right and a duty to analyse these “views”. I am not concerned with her. My target are her views that seem to misguide and corrupt my sisters in Islam. Let me try to answer point by point.

First, she starts as an Egyptian Muslim woman and is addressing Muslim women and then contradicts herself “I am not a cleric, and I am not here to argue over what religion says about sex……” Every proud and practicing Muslim first looks for guidance from the Islamic Law and Jurisprudence (Fiqh/Shari’ah) on any topic before embarking on it. So, Ms Mona if you want to talk as a Muslim to Muslims on sex then first read or consult a cleric on what Islam has to say on this subject and then give your reasons to alter or reject them on the basis of Shari’ah, knowledge and reason. To make the carnal desires as central to the argument conveys too much of an animal and too little of the human. If you are not a believing Muslim and you have a right to do that (though our Mullas will go for your neck for that!!) then please talk as a woman and address other women in general. You cannot eat the cake and have it. If you are a member of a club it is your civic duty to follow its rules and regulations. If you have serious differences with them, you are honor bound to voluntarily quit. 

The writer goes at great length to describe the results of interviews at her Book reading, Book tour  “that took me to 12 countries. Everywhere I went — from Europe and North America to India, Nigeria and Pakistan….”, her jammed emails on this subject and “when I was teaching at the University of Oklahoma in 2010”. She enumerates the statements of some women as “I, too, am fed up with waiting to have sex”, “I’m 32 and there’s no one I want to marry. How do I get over the fear that God will hate me if I have sex before marriage?”, how to “get rid of this burden of virginity”“ask about hymen reconstruction surgery if they’re planning to marry someone who doesn’t know their sexual history”, “the sexual straitjacket we force upon women”, “the stories on women’s sexual frustrations and experiences”. She then adds  “Many cultures and religions prescribe the abstinence that was indoctrinated in me.” I would like to respond thus:
First, elementary human physiology teaches us about the hardship of holding on sex gratification till marriage. The writer did not need the interviews to learn that.
Second, for every single woman that she has interviewed there are tens of thousands of women from the 1.6 billion Muslims who brave this trial period voluntarily and happily to build the family - unit of a civilised Muslim society - on rock solid grounds.
She has quoted some sites of “sex-positive attitudes” like the blog Adventures From the Bedroom of African Women, founded by the Ghana-based writer Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah, and the Mumbai-based Agents of Ishq, a digital project on sex education and sexual life.  She adds “As the writer Mitali Saran put it, in an anthology of Indian women’s writing: “I am not ashamed of being a sexual being.” I would like to remind the writer that a sense of shame is a highly noble attribute of civilised human beings. Animals and other sexual beings are just incapable to achieve that level. 

The climax of the article appears in the last sentence: “My revolution has been to develop from a 29-year-old virgin to the 49-year-old woman who now declares, on any platform I get: It is I who own my body. Not the state, the mosque, the street or my family. And it is my right to have sex whenever, and with whomever, I choose”. 

This ‘revolution’ to the vast majority of sisters in Islam, including the educated and intellectual is a steep decent and degeneration into abyss and disaster. 

Yes, Ms. Mona Eltahawy it is obvious to the blind that you own your body. Humans have been using their body as they like over a wide spectrum over the centuries. One extreme on the right are the Catholic Nuns and the other extreme on the left are the Prostitutes, euphemistically aka sex workers who are forced by circumstances to use their bodies to earn a living. Your revolution lands you in this latter neighborhood with one very strong difference: they do it for money; you propose it for gratification of one’s carnal desires. There are some reports to suggest that even some species of animals do not indulge in such free sex. It is your car and your life; still you cannot drive at any speed everywhere. It is your body and your physiology, yet you just cannot have the right to relieve yourself on the streets any where and whenever you like. All civilised human societies have a set of values, rules and regulations to control and guide our action and “our body”.

Yes again, it is your right to choose the pattern of sexual behavior you like. But do not deny us the right to call this behaviour (not you but the behaviour you are advocating) as depraved and disgusting. Apart from significant sections of European and American “liberal” cultures, rest of humanity does not approve of promiscuity and debauchery, unlimited or selective. Free sex, like dishonesty and a craze for wealth is a powerful and strong and widespread base animal passion in human beings. There have been some notable proponents for this behaviour like the famous British Philosopher and Nobel laureate Bertrand Russel. However, most of humanity of all religions, philosophy and cultures have all along discouraged and denounced this abominable practice.



Moral and Ethical Commandments (Akhlaakiyaat) in Islamic Shari'ah for Muslims

Moral and Ethical Commandments (Akhlaakiyaat)
 In Islamic Shari'ah for Muslims
ABSTRACT
“O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.” 
It is a glaring and unfortunate paradox in the communal life and thinking of Muslims. Morality and Ethical values (Akhlaaqiyaat) is one to the core values and primary objectives of our Deen along with Eemaan and the four pillars of Shari’ah. Yet it is hardly discussed let alone stressed in our personal and collective discussions and debate.  We hear all sorts of topics from the pulpit at Friday prayers but hardly ever about compassion or humanity. Our traditional scholarship seems to be obsessed by penalizing and punishment when it comes to Shari’ah Law, as if there is nothing else to it. They refuse to learn from the great example of Sayyedna Umar Khattab. However, the Holy Text is replete with instructions and advice to build our individual and collective Islamic moral values and behavior. I intend to discuss a few of them in the subsequent sessions. The index ayah is a fine example of such verses. It defines in a beautiful and simple style three immoral practices which can ruffle and upset a Muslim society, then makes a statement that such practices are inconsistent with Eemaan and lastly hints at the retribution for it. First, men are prohibited from laughing at other men. Similarly women are warned at laughing at other women. Second, we are strictly prohibited from insulting or defaming others. In a way this second part endorses and elaborates on the first. Third, a firm order to refrain from using offensive nicknames. These are usually used for defamation or refer to some defect, real or imaginary. There are some nicknames, however used for identification even though they sound offensive. As there is no intention of defaming, these are permissible. A related problem is calling a person by a good title. The Holy Prophet approved of this practice known as Kunniyyah, quite common in Arabia. The next part of the ayah is a general statement from Allah Ta'aala Subhaanahoo viz. once we have proclaimed Eemaan a certain level of behaviour and demeanor is consequently expected of us and we must constantly endeavour to achieve that. At the end of ayah, we are warned that if we do not desist from these social evils we will be branded as “zaalemoon” i.e. wrong-doers, evil doers and unjust.


May 25, 2016
 Read ONLY,  IF AND WHEN you have time and mood for: 
 “An Ayah of the Quran for 30 Days” -- May 2016

Choose the section you have time, in the next 30 days to read this ayah:-

Prelude:                       Recurrent Primary Message          1st.          Page
Starting Dua, a note & The Ayah                                      2nd.        Page
A Short Summary:       For the Busy Bee                            N.A.       Pages
The Main Story:           Recommended                                Two        Pages
Footnotes:                   For the Perfectionist                        One -      Pages


PRELUDE
From the Pen and Perspective of a self-styled PPK Muslim (Proud, Practicing, Knowledgeable) with a humble submission that Islam totally rejects Blind Following BUT vigorously focusses on the Limitations of Pure Human Reasoning..............and clearly and comprehensively AlLAH knows best.

In the beginning of the seventh century C.E., the folks of Mecca and Medina had a fascinatingly unique window: they had direct access to the Heavens through one of their own. They were blessed with a regular stream of Divine counseling and guidelines. Question and answer sessions were part of the program. Even individual questioner was graced by an answer. In the short Introduction to this scheme they were assured that at the end of this twenty-two year project, Divine Directions and Admonitions will continue through the agency of the PEN. The whole discourse has been preserved and archived till eternity under the guarantee of our Lord and Creator. This record in known as the Quran. 

It should sound unbelievable but factually appears to be true: Many of our prevalent, widespread and important concepts and opinions about religious matters do not have a basis in the Quran and sometimes even appear to be in obvious conflict with the teachings of the Quran. It would be very educative and helpful to discuss an Ayah once a month to see if it supports or rejects our views and actions in our daily life. I wish and hope this email generates a fruitful interactive discussion. 

DUAA’
بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ


In the name of Allah, we praise HIM, seek HIS help and ask for HIS forgiveness. Whosoever Allah guideth none can misguide; whosoever HE allows to fall astray, none can guide him right. We bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but Allah alone and we bear witness that Mohammed, SAW is HIS slave-servant and the Seal of HIS Messengers. 
Further, we recall that Allah Ta’aala has declared in HIS Book1 “He granteth wisdom to whom He pleaseth; and he to whom wisdom is granted receiveth indeed a benefit overflowing; but none will grasp the Message (or remember or receive admonition) but men of understanding (or intellect)” and we also recall that he has warned us about the day of judgement2 “Then on that day you shall most certainly be questioned about the boons (joy, pleasure).” We realise, that there cannot be a greater boon or blessing or benefit than wisdom and we wonder if this should be a timely reminder to very many of us sincere and practicing Muslims who use our critical thinking to enhance the mundane for ourselves and our families but resort to compulsory following -- taqleed, doctrine of classical Sunni Islamic Fiqh  -- in matters religion. 

(NOTE:  I have filtered out the proofs and details into the Footnotes for those who have the time and interest for them. The main email will then be reasonable length, hopefully for the busy majority. What follows is not a sermon; I do not feel qualified to give one, anyhow. I wish, it may provide a food for thought. A caveat seems in order: If the ayah selected pertains to issues we face in our daily life with our family, friends, neighbours or peers it may affect us personally and lead to some self analysis and soul searching which in turn could be divisive and distressing. If taken in the right spirit, it can be a humble attempt towards finding the “straight path”.) 

THE AYAH

يا أَيُّهَا الَّذينَ آمَنوا لا يَسخَر قَومٌ مِن قَومٍ عَسىٰ أَن يَكونوا خَيرًا مِنهُم وَلا نِساءٌ مِن نِساءٍ عَسىٰ أَن يَكُنَّ خَيرًا مِنهُنَّ ۖ وَلا تَلمِزوا أَنفُسَكُم وَلا تَنابَزوا بِالأَلقابِ ۖ بِئسَ الِاسمُ الفُسوقُ بَعدَ الإيمانِ ۚ وَمَن لَم يَتُب فَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الظّالِمونَ
“O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.”  Yousuf Ali. 


A SHORT VERSION
NONE

THE MAIN STORY
“I am convinced about the veracity of my opinions, but I do consider it likely that they may turn out to be incorrect. Likewise, I am convinced about the incorrectness of the views different from mine, but I do concede the possibility that they may turn out to be correct.” Imam Shafa’i

It is a glaring and unfortunate paradox in the communal life and thinking of Muslims. Morality and Ethical values (Akhlaaqiyaat) is one to the core values and primary objectives of our Deen along with Eemaan and the four pillars of Shari’ah. Yet it is hardly discussed let alone stressed in our personal and collective discussions and debate.  We hear all sorts of topics from the pulpit at Friday prayers but hardly ever about compassion or humanity. Our traditional scholarship seems to be obsessed by penalizing and punishment when it comes to Shari’ah Law, as if there is nothing else to it. They refuse to learn from the great example of Sayyedna Umar Khattab. During a period of famine, he had suspended the punishment for theft on the principle that if he cannot feed his people he does not have a right to punish them. Our scholars do not seem to be  interested in building a Muslim community based on the great moral and ethical teachings of Islam before (or at least along with) they start legislating to flog them, stone them to death or strike their heads off. The Islamic State of Pakistan, under General and later President Ziaul Haque decided to implement the Shari’ah Law. The people, as a result got the great gift of the Hudood Ordinance and the blasphemy Law. I think these two laws are the greatest example of blasphemy against our beloved and Holy Prophet. Very recently, the traditional religious scholars in Pakistan joined hands to make a hero out of a man who was coward and wicked enough to shamefully thrust a volley of bullets into the Governor of the Punjab, whom he had pledged to protect just because the governor had suggested an alteration to the blasphemy law. He was given a funeral which could easily match the one given to Qaid-e-Azam, the founder of Pakistan. This state of affairs is against the basic teachings of the Holy Quran and contrary to the practice and preaching of our Holy Prophet. 

The Holy Text is replete with instructions and advice to build our individual and collective Islamic moral values and behavior. I intend to discuss a few of them in the subsequent sessions. 

The index ayah is a fine example of such verses. Earlier in the the Surah the etiquette of addressing the Holy Prophet was discussed. Next the principles of  collective behaviour of Muslims towards one another were dealt with. This ayah specifies individual behavior. It defines in a beautiful and simple style three immoral practices which can ruffle and upset a Muslim society, then makes a statement that such practices are inconsistent with Eemaan and lastly hints at the retribution for it. 

First, men are prohibited from laughing at other men. Similarly women are warned at laughing at other women. This is not to stop enjoying and laughing with each other; this is fun and perfectly valid. The objection is to laughing at the cost of someone else; when the aim is to mock or taunt and specially to insult and ridicule others. Maulana Maudoodi defines the details “Mocking does not only imply mocking with the tongue but it also includes mimicking somebody, making pointed references to him, laughing at his words, or his works, or his appearance, or his dress, or calling the people's attention to some defect or blemish in him so that others also may laugh at him.”  This is very painful to the person concerned and leads to a bad taste around. The implication is that believers, whether men or women, shall never deride one another (Zamakhshari, Baydawi). This applies no less to the faith of the one who insults than to that of the insulted (Razi). Qurtubi has a similar elaboration: “mocking or scoffing does not only connote mocking with the tongue, but it also implies mimicking someone, making pointed references to him, laughing at his words, his works, his appearance, his dress or calling people's attention to some of his defects, so that they may laugh at him. Mocking includes all of this. By the clear text of the Quran, poking fun at someone or ridiculing him is absolutely forbidden.” We are reminded in this ayah that the person being mocked at may be better than us because of his sincerity and purity of heart in the eyes of Allah Ta'aala Subhaanahoo. I feel this a very potent and compulsive reason to desist from trying to lower others. The Holy Prophet said: "Allah does not look at your faces and your wealth; He looks at your hearts and your works” ( Sahih Muslim, narrated by Abu Hurairah)

A minor clarification is called for. The verse is using the word “qowm”for men; this term in fact includes both the genders of society. However as the women are specifically mentioned in the next part of the ayah, all the Mufassirs have translated the word “qowm” as referring to men.

Yet another clarification. Men are asked not to look down upon other men; likewise women upon other women. What about the attitude of men towards women and vice versa. The ayah is silent on that. Two outstanding Muslim scholars Maulana Mufti Mohammed Shafi and Maulana Al Ala Maudoodi regard this as an endorsement of their view that there is compulsory gender segregation in a Muslim society. Men are never on the same floor with women so they cannot ridicule each other. “Ridiculing each other generally occurs where there is such an intermingling. Therefore, in a Muslim society it is inconceivable that men would mock a woman or women would mock a man in an intermingling situation” says the Mufti. Maulana Maudoodi endorses him “Therefore, in a Muslim society it is inconceivable that the men would mock a woman, or the women would mock a man in an assembly.”  One obvious objection. Mehram men and women definitely have many occasions to face, address and laugh with one another or at one another. 

Second, we are strictly prohibited from insulting or defaming others. In all languages, a single word has multiple meanings. The Arabic language excels in this. “A cutting, biting remark or taunt of sarcasm is included in the word ‘lamaza’” says Youuf Ali.  Maulana Maudoodi defines “The word ‘lamz' as used in the original is very comprehensive and applies to ridiculing, reviling, deriding, jeering, charging somebody or finding fault with him, and making him the target of reproach and blame by open or tacit references.” In a way this second part endorses and elaborates on the first. These are attitudes that poison the relationship in a society. Hence the strong Divine commandment to keep clear off these social evils to allow a free growth of stable and happy community under Islam.

Third, a firm order to refrain from using offensive nicknames. These are usually used for defamation or refer to some defect, real or imaginary like the “the lame one” or “the black man” or “one eyed”. According to the Holy Prophet “Anyone who denigrates a Muslim who has committed a sin of which he has repented, Allah takes it upon Himself that He will get the person to commit the very same sin and expose him to
embarrassment and humiliation in this world and in the Hereafter” (Qurtubi). Taking a cue from this    Sayyidna Ibn 'Abbas defines the prohibition of “tanabuz bil-alqab” as  “if a person committed a sin or performed an evil deed from which he repented and mended his ways, it is unlawful for anyone to call him by denigrating names, such as thief, an adulterer, a drunkard or any such name.”

There are some nicknames, however used for identification even though they sound offensive. As there is no intention of defaming , these are permissible. Hence the Muhaddisin have used  names like Suleman al-A`mash (the weak-eyed Suleman) and Wasil' al-Ahdab (the hunch-backed Wasil) for the reporters of the Hadith. This was specially handy when several of them had a common name like Abdullah and one of them could be recognised by his nickname e.g. Abdullah, the blind. Lastly there are names or titles apparently offensive but given out of affection and even approved by the person themselves like  Abu Hurairah (father of the kitten) and Abu Turab (father of the dust). These titles are obviously excluded from the command of this ayah. The Holy Prophet himself named a Companion hul-yadain because his hands were relatively long.

A related yet different problem is naming and calling a person by a good title. The Holy Prophet approved of this practice known as Kunniyyah, quite common in Arabia. The Holy Prophet himself had bestowed appropriate titles on some of his  Companions: Atiq (the noble) for Sayyidna Abu Bakr Siddiq, Faruq (he who distinguishes truth from falsehood) for Sayyidna Umar bin Khattab, Asadullah (the lion of Allah) for Sayyidna Hamza and Saifullah (the sword of Allah) for Khalid Bin Walid.

The next part of the ayah is a statement from Allah Ta'aala Subhaanahoo. I find it rather difficult to understand the full meaning of the sentence from the translations of the individual words. Some of the renderings of this part of the ayah by different Mufassirs are also a little confusing. I find Shakir “evil is a bad name after faith” and  Mohsin Khan “How bad is it, to insult one's brother after having Faith” explain it very meaningfully. This is a sort of general statement to us from God Almighty viz. once we have proclaimed Eemaan — Faith in Allah, HIS Messenger and the Hereafter — a certain level of behaviour and demeanor is consequently expected of us and we must constantly endeavour to achieve that. 

At the end of ayah, we are warned that if we do not desist from these social evils we will be branded as “zaalemoon” i.e. wrong-doers, evil doers and unjust.



........and Allah knows best. 
May Allah Ta’aala bless us with true understanding--“fahm”--of our Deen, Aameen.

Dr. Khalid Mitha


FOOTNOTES

(1) Surah 2/269
يُؤتِي الحِكمَةَ مَن يَشاءُ ۚ وَمَن يُؤتَ الحِكمَةَ فَقَد أوتِيَ خَيرًا كَثيرًا ۗ وَما يَذَّكَّرُ إِلّا أُولُو الأَلبابِ


(2) Surah 102/8
ثُمَّ لَتُسأَلُنَّ يَومَئِذٍ عَنِ النَّعيمِ









Islamic Shari’ah on Muslim "Man v/s Woman" as against "Husband v/s Wife"

Islamic Shari’ah on Muslim
 "Man v/s Woman" as against "Husband v/s Wife"

It is very clear all over in the Quran that our Shari’ah equates Man and Woman in all the fields — equal but different, very different at times. Women have all the rights and  responsibilities of the opposite gender: the right to property, educate, work etc. It will be safe to state that our Deen does not draw any difference between the two in this context: the society as a whole. It can be confidently surmised from a study of the Islamic scholarship that the rights of women are as obligatory upon men as the rights of men are upon women and the rights of both are similar to each other.

However it is entirely a different ball game in Islam in the context of relationship between Husband and Wife. The entire concept and approach changes once you add this bond and association. Now we are introducing the institution of the FAMILY — the Unit of Society in Islam. As this is a fundamental demand for a healthy Islamic community our Shari’ah has many rules to protect and strengthen this Unit. The very harsh and unequivocal denunciation of Adultery is the first and strong step in this direction. Second, the Shari’ah has ordered and defined “maraatib” among the members of the family to ensure cooperation and avoid confrontation among them. For want of a single word, “maraatib” can be described as a system of Divine ranking of the members of the family. As pointed out by the eminent scholar Javed Ahmed Ghamdi Sahib this system of “maraatib” is one of our distinguishing features from the Western society; they have no concept of this with disastrous consequences to the fabric of the family unit. The Mother (a woman) has three times higher position than Father (a man). A son (a man of fifty years) is obliged to respect and revere his Mother (a woman). We all willingly agree to all this. Enters controversy and distress when Allah Ta'aala Subhaanahoo declares HIS ranking between a husband and wife. Please note that a woman as a woman has her full rights to dictate the terms of contract of marriage, reject it or accept it. Our beloved Prophet is on record as annulling a marriage contract when he was told by the woman concerned that it was done without her approval. Once the contract is signed, a woman has evolved into a wife — an integral and cardinal transformation. Now there is no room for a contest or conflict of genders. She and her husband are on the same side in their effort to manage, develop and run the Family. I would  like to point out to my Sisters and Daughters that in this mutual kinship the Quran has clearly and unequivocally ordained that the husband is “Qawwaam over “ the wife. There is no room to challenge this. The main and only issue remaining to reflect and debate is: Who is a Qawwaam and what are his rights and responsibilities? 

This word has been variously translated. The literal meaning of the word “denotes a person who holds the responsibility or has the duty and charge to manage a job or run a system or take care of what has to be done about something, controlling all related factors therein.” One rendering for this word is very frightening, calling it “haakim” (one who rules, governs, or decides.) and “musallat”(dominant over his wife) by eminent scholars like Maulana Mufti Mohammed Shafi and Dr. Israr Ahmed. The famous scholar Javed Ahmed Ghamdi has termed it as “sarbarah”, head of the family. Other translations include: “protectors and maintainers of women” by Maudoodi, Yousuf Ali and Mohsin Khan; “take full care of women” by Dr. Asad; “Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women” by Dr. Ghali; “Men are in charge of women” by Pickthal and Sahih International; “Men are the maintainers of women” by Shakir. Few other alternates used are: caretakers of women; guardians, custodians and overseers. 

I hope, I have been able to convince my Sisters and Daughters that in the Divine ranking (“maraatib”) of members of a Family, the husband has been designated as  Head of the family and the wife is required to “obey” and cooperate. It is a functional and administrative division. The husband is a working head and not a ruler or dictator in the political sense.

To put the whole issue in its proper perspective (and to reassure my hardworking sisters and daughters) let me close by quoting an ultra-conservative but an outstanding scholar Mufti Mohammed Shafi: “As explained in other verses of the Holy Qur'an, this mantle of authority placed on the shoulders of men is not that of a dictator and a tyrant. While exercising this authority, man is bound by the supreme law of Islam, the Shari'ah. He must act on the principle of consultations and follow good counsel. He just cannot act at the spur of his whim or his wild instincts. The command given to him is: “Treat women well, as recognized”(The Holy Quran).

Trying to answer one question, I have stirred up many more, I am afraid. All of them need answers. Perhaps in due course.